Comments on: Art in the Church Building? http://www.veritasse.co.uk/blog/2007/09/25/art-in-the-church-building/ Discuss, share ideas,ask questions Wed, 20 Aug 2008 15:30:52 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2 By: Kathy Grimm http://www.veritasse.co.uk/blog/2007/09/25/art-in-the-church-building/#comment-528 Kathy Grimm Thu, 06 Dec 2007 21:05:37 +0000 http://www.veritasse.co.uk/blog/2007/09/25/art-in-the-church-building/#comment-528 I was once on a church committee that was thinking of moving old photos of their founding fathers to a different location. I was all for it. These photos were hung in the front entrance of the church. Elderly members were very attached to them. The committe found that there were many important reasons to move them. These photos did nothing to spread the word of God, or teach a lesson, or even decorate a religious space in a beautiful way. The photos were also of white men who lived over forty years ago and the church was located in a neighborhood where 95% of the community was infact, African American. We felt that the photos might be seen as counter productive to the spreading the message of brotherhood and may be even seen as antagonistic. All of their new church members were black. So we suggested the congregation move these photos to a small study and display them as historical materials for interested visitors. The church was quite old and we felt that this sent a positive message to the congregation about preservation and would at the same time encourage new members to hang more meaningful artwork about the Bible and Christ Himself. England has so many lovely old church buildings. One might think that a small study set apart for the very purpose of recording church history and memory would be very appealing for this reason. Perhaps even a DVD film record of artworks that must be sold at auction or given to a museum, may help church members to feel they have kept the honor of their past history and at the same time have embraced the new. The church historian or librarian could then perhaps show these records during anniversary celebrations or during certain times of the year. This would also give other artists in the parish an opportunity to give their time and talents in creating film to inform and preserve. Young artists seem very interested in film these days. Rotating banners is an excellent idea, Sue! This would give all the artists in your church a chance to speak about Christ. Banners are less permanent in the minds of parishioners and they seem to be more willing to try new things with this art form. If you start a program for textile artists, make sure to build inside of a storage room a special rack that will accomodate the banners. These contraptions are usually built by a local carpender and they allow your church to preserve a marvelous banner collection.(It wouldn't hurt to make that rack out of cedar if you can; insects hate cedar, I believe.) The rack needs to be installed close to the ceiling of the room and it needs to be installed in a room or closet with little lighting. Direct lighting can destroy these artworks, so can storing them folded. Require artists to make the banners standard sizes. In this way, the banners can be stored simply without creasing while hanging from the racks. Our church stores many Baptismal banners by these means. The parents create a banner like this every year for the children that are confirmed. We have over twenty years of banners celebrating close to a hundred children's confirmations. We take them all out to hang during the confirmation ceremony every year. I was once on a church committee that was thinking of moving old photos of their founding fathers to a different location. I was all for it. These photos were hung in the front entrance of the church. Elderly members were very attached to them.

The committe found that there were many important reasons to move them. These photos did nothing to spread the word of God, or teach a lesson, or even decorate a religious space in a beautiful way. The photos were also of white men who lived over forty years ago and the church was located in a neighborhood where 95% of the community was infact, African American. We felt that the photos might be seen as counter productive to the spreading the message of brotherhood and may be even seen as antagonistic. All of their new church members were black.

So we suggested the congregation move these photos to a small study and display them as historical materials for interested visitors. The church was quite old and we felt that this sent a positive message to the congregation about preservation and would at the same time encourage new members to hang more meaningful artwork about the Bible and Christ Himself.

England has so many lovely old church buildings. One might think that a small study set apart for the very purpose of recording church history and memory would be very appealing for this reason. Perhaps even a DVD film record of artworks that must be sold at auction or given to a museum, may help church members to feel they have kept the honor of their past history and at the same time have embraced the new. The church historian or librarian could then perhaps show these records during anniversary celebrations or during certain times of the year. This would also give other artists in the parish an opportunity to give their time and talents in creating film to inform and preserve. Young artists seem very interested in film these days.

Rotating banners is an excellent idea, Sue! This would give all the artists in your church a chance to speak about Christ. Banners are less permanent in the minds of parishioners and they seem to be more willing to try new things with this art form.

If you start a program for textile artists, make sure to build inside of a storage room a special rack that will accomodate the banners. These contraptions are usually built by a local carpender and they allow your church to preserve a marvelous banner collection.(It wouldn’t hurt to make that rack out of cedar if you can; insects hate cedar, I believe.) The rack needs to be installed close to the ceiling of the room and it needs to be installed in a room or closet with little lighting. Direct lighting can destroy these artworks, so can storing them folded. Require artists to make the banners standard sizes. In this way, the banners can be stored simply without creasing while hanging from the racks. Our church stores many Baptismal banners by these means. The parents create a banner like this every year for the children that are confirmed. We have over twenty years of banners celebrating close to a hundred children’s confirmations. We take them all out to hang during the confirmation ceremony every year.

]]> By: Dave Gilder http://www.veritasse.co.uk/blog/2007/09/25/art-in-the-church-building/#comment-450 Dave Gilder Thu, 22 Nov 2007 18:15:02 +0000 http://www.veritasse.co.uk/blog/2007/09/25/art-in-the-church-building/#comment-450 Dont tell michaelangelo we are thinking of painting over the cistene chapel!!!!!!!!!!! ps. I'm joking. Dont tell michaelangelo we are thinking of painting over the cistene chapel!!!!!!!!!!!
ps. I’m joking.

]]> By: lastd@btinternet.com http://www.veritasse.co.uk/blog/2007/09/25/art-in-the-church-building/#comment-312 lastd@btinternet.com Mon, 05 Nov 2007 15:17:34 +0000 http://www.veritasse.co.uk/blog/2007/09/25/art-in-the-church-building/#comment-312 Picking up on the issue of portraying Jesus in a painting, I think that using Christs image is perfectly acceptable and continues the history if christian art telling the old, old story!! Surely an object or art work only becomes an idol if it is worshiped? Recently I have been working on some pictures that portray Jesus and it is hard to know how to do that with out being corney or too obscure. I have come to the conclusion that Jesus should be portrayed as a man, simply and humanly yet set apart somehow. I hope the works will move and engage people. As for distraction surely if the service is engaging enough people wont be distracted!! If these pieces of work have an historical value maybe they could be given a new lease of life in a new location or even donated to a local museum or art gallery and new more contempory work put in their place. Picking up on the issue of portraying Jesus in a painting, I think that using Christs image is perfectly acceptable and continues the history if christian art telling the old, old story!! Surely an object or art work only becomes an idol if it is worshiped? Recently I have been working on some pictures that portray Jesus and it is hard to know how to do that with out being corney or too obscure. I have come to the conclusion that Jesus should be portrayed as a man, simply and humanly yet set apart somehow. I hope the works will move and engage people. As for distraction surely if the service is engaging enough people wont be distracted!! If these pieces of work have an historical value maybe they could be given a new lease of life in a new location or even donated to a local museum or art gallery and new more contempory work put in their place.

]]> By: Sue http://www.veritasse.co.uk/blog/2007/09/25/art-in-the-church-building/#comment-291 Sue Sun, 04 Nov 2007 19:46:01 +0000 http://www.veritasse.co.uk/blog/2007/09/25/art-in-the-church-building/#comment-291 As a producer of Christian pictures, I obviously hope that my art work will point people towards God and encourage worship of Him for who He is. If I think ahead into the future, I know that the gospel will not change. I know that God will not change and the truths about Him will be true in 1000 years time and beyond. Whether my pictures will still be useful in 50 years time, I am less sure of. Some images age better than others because they are less linked to the time and culture, but still.... I guess I am swayed by being involved with making a banner for our church some years ago. When it was first used, it was a real source of inspiration and encouragement to people. As time went on, it got more bedraggled and was put out habitually because it had been put out every week for the last three or more years, but it had lost its effectiveness and become part of the scenery. I finally decided that enough was enough and threw it in the bin! Maybe I am more in favour of a rotation of images in church buildings or perhaps temporary displays. The Truth is always the Truth, but God brings certain aspects of it to a church's attention at different times, so different pictures may be relevant. I know that this in no way answers the question of what to do when you have a piece of art in your church which has been around for ages. I just think that, if I were the artist in Julia's case, I wouldn't object to my work being moved somewhere else. (If my work was still being displayed anywhere after my death, I would feel very honoured!) As a producer of Christian pictures, I obviously hope that my art work will point people towards God and encourage worship of Him for who He is. If I think ahead into the future, I know that the gospel will not change. I know that God will not change and the truths about Him will be true in 1000 years time and beyond. Whether my pictures will still be useful in 50 years time, I am less sure of. Some images age better than others because they are less linked to the time and culture, but still….
I guess I am swayed by being involved with making a banner for our church some years ago. When it was first used, it was a real source of inspiration and encouragement to people. As time went on, it got more bedraggled and was put out habitually because it had been put out every week for the last three or more years, but it had lost its effectiveness and become part of the scenery. I finally decided that enough was enough and threw it in the bin!
Maybe I am more in favour of a rotation of images in church buildings or perhaps temporary displays. The Truth is always the Truth, but God brings certain aspects of it to a church’s attention at different times, so different pictures may be relevant.
I know that this in no way answers the question of what to do when you have a piece of art in your church which has been around for ages. I just think that, if I were the artist in Julia’s case, I wouldn’t object to my work being moved somewhere else. (If my work was still being displayed anywhere after my death, I would feel very honoured!)

]]> By: George Geisler http://www.veritasse.co.uk/blog/2007/09/25/art-in-the-church-building/#comment-254 George Geisler Thu, 01 Nov 2007 18:15:41 +0000 http://www.veritasse.co.uk/blog/2007/09/25/art-in-the-church-building/#comment-254 In the long history of the Church in occidental culture, art has been integral with the worship place. Also, Christian theology doesn't change. Pendulums do swing with emphases and popular modes, but the basic ideas do not. The theology that was embraced when these paintings were executed hasn't changed, has it? Only perhaps our taste for popular music, and an embracing of informal worship. But this may pass, as Sue says, like an unwanted tattoo. ( I indeed hope so!) Besides the fact that it is considered art, is it good art or done because someone donated it? It may not be very good. It might be incredibly well done and ignored for more contemporary tastes. Before the art is destroyed, which is forever, there would need to be a discussion of its place in the history and the culture of the congregation, a decision made, and responsibility for that decision accepted. In the long history of the Church in occidental culture, art has been integral with the worship place. Also, Christian theology doesn’t change. Pendulums do swing with emphases and popular modes, but the basic ideas do not. The theology that was embraced when these paintings were executed hasn’t changed, has it? Only perhaps our taste for popular music, and an embracing of informal worship. But this may pass, as Sue says, like an unwanted tattoo. ( I indeed hope so!)

Besides the fact that it is considered art, is it good art or done because someone donated it? It may not be very good. It might be incredibly well done and ignored for more contemporary tastes.

Before the art is destroyed, which is forever, there would need to be a discussion of its place in the history and the culture of the congregation, a decision made, and responsibility for that decision accepted.

]]> By: Sue http://www.veritasse.co.uk/blog/2007/09/25/art-in-the-church-building/#comment-108 Sue Thu, 27 Sep 2007 22:29:14 +0000 http://www.veritasse.co.uk/blog/2007/09/25/art-in-the-church-building/#comment-108 This is a really tricky issue. You can see it from all points of view. The historical aspect can be really important to people. Many works of art are now considered to be an integral part of the building they are in and removing them seems unthinkable. Whether the paintings are helpful in a modern place of worship is a different issue. This may seem like a sideline, but I have always disagreed with tattoos, because they can be very relevant and meaningful at the time, but as a person's life changes and develops, they may become outdated or actually unhelpful. (Please don't feel offended if you have a tattoo! This is just my personal opinion.) In the same way, a work of art which becomes a permanent feature can be hard to get rid of- like a tattoo- but may actually outlive it's usefulness in encouraging people to look to God. How you reconcile the historic issues with the spiritual in any particular case is a very knotty issue! This is a really tricky issue. You can see it from all points of view. The historical aspect can be really important to people. Many works of art are now considered to be an integral part of the building they are in and removing them seems unthinkable. Whether the paintings are helpful in a modern place of worship is a different issue.
This may seem like a sideline, but I have always disagreed with tattoos, because they can be very relevant and meaningful at the time, but as a person’s life changes and develops, they may become outdated or actually unhelpful. (Please don’t feel offended if you have a tattoo! This is just my personal opinion.)
In the same way, a work of art which becomes a permanent feature can be hard to get rid of- like a tattoo- but may actually outlive it’s usefulness in encouraging people to look to God.
How you reconcile the historic issues with the spiritual in any particular case is a very knotty issue!

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